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Is universal healthcare that bad of an idea? I don't understand several things about how Americans view it as a bad idea. First off… Where is the American view of we can do anything better than anyone? And another thing I was thinking about, I do understand that socialized medicine could turn out to be a bad idea, but we have successful government run programs all over the country, why does this particular one have to fail? Why should any individual trust a government run military or NASA and not trust a government run program for check-ups and operations? Why can we be so good at some things but suck at others before we even try?
The military and NASA are both very interesting. Both entities waste millions and millions of dollars each year. Success is not based off of money saved like a private business. Success is measured by mission accomplishment.
Socialist medicine is a proven failure in many countries. It allows the government to ration out healthcare. It leads to abuses where people are being denied treatment because of age or mental health state.
The health care industry is already controlled so much by the government and is why we have such high costs. We need an alternative to the FDA because their slow procedures keep good drugs backlogged in the system for a decade or more when people could have taken those meds and lived. Also administrative costs account for 25% of all healthcare costs.
Allow the free markets to prevail and get government out of medicine. Costs will dramatically come down. We had affordable healthcare back in the 1960's. But then government got involved and messed it up.
The purpose of government is to protect liberties, not to get involved in psuedo healthcare. Socialized medicine is not going to give you a good plan, better treatment, or fair practices. They are going to FORCE you to buy a plan the government thinks is good. Chances are the people who are going to pick the plans for you are more educated properly either. The government is full of people who are not experts, but politicians and con artists.
Private business always does it better. They have to operate a budget, they have to succeed. If you don't run a good business, you go out of business. The animal spirits of human entrepeneurs always makes sure competition occurs and the best alternatives succeed. Its basic economics that are time tested and proven methods.
Well you put a lot up there so let me start at the beginning. I hear all the time that Our Military is the best in the world, is that not success? Does that not mean throwing 10 times more money at it than anyone else means it might be successful. And Socialist medicine is a proven failure by a lot of people, but there are also people who like it better, there is always two sides to that coin. There are people who go to those countries to get the free and sometimes better healthcare instead of getting robbed by their current systems. I agree that our current system doesn't work, and I believe that's why this(socialized medicine) idea is getting more and more followers. And you are right, the government has been setting prices for medicine and been in control for years, which is another reason it's gone down hill.
If we could actually get the free market to run itself that would fix so much. But do you honestly think in this day in age that the free market would remain free for long? I hate the FDA, but if we could get the bureaucracy out of it, the politicians, we might be able to do some good. Administrative costs will always account for a good percentage of any industry, especially when the malpractice and medical law suits are in the higher percentages. In our current system I have many people in my family that have been rejected of have very high costs because of prior conditions. My mother can't even get decent healthcare for the main reason she had Breast Cancer, that's just not right.
Also if you want to get technical about it, the purpose of government is to protect our liberties and more. I will take a piece from something you are very familiar with: "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
Now promote the general welfare… I will give you the definition of Welfare: 1. the good fortune, health, happiness, prosperity, etc., of a person, group, or organization; well-being: to look after a child's welfare; the physical or moral welfare of society.
As that explains to me… That's exactly what the government is supposed to do, promote my general health. Our current system doesn't do that. I can't afford healthcare personally, and I'm not some jobless scum feeding off the government, it's just not in my budget right now. And our children are not getting the care they need.
Here's the situation basically, the current system we have doesn't work! So they are trying to fix it, although I do agree with you I would personally rather go back to the older system and perhaps let the free market try. But apparently that's not in the cards right now. I don't know how we could take the government out of everything right now as the system currently is, it would probably crumble and fall. Basically what I've been seeing lately is the two sides of government, left and right, are just pointing fingers at each other saying the others idea is bad. The Democrats are saying, Look what Bush did, Look at our economy, things aren't good right now, and we can make them better. What I'm seeing from the Republicans are just tearing up every little thing the democrats are doing. Not one person is working together to make this country a better place for all of us. Most individual people can overlook these things, but for some reason in government they can't. They just want to bicker and waste tax dollars and time.
I agree that our government is too damn big, but I'm not talking about the necessary entities that we most likely need. I'm talking about all the staff aids and lobbyers, wasting money on researching shit we don't need, wasting time and money in helping out the poor who can help themselves… the list goes on and on. But does that mean our people do not deserve a better life and better healthcare. I also agree it(socialized medicine) could get way worse, it could be a horrible idea, but my mentality is, We are fucking America, why can't we do it better and help out our people more! But what do I know… at some point though you will have to agree and everyone will. Our system was designed for the government to take care of it's people. I'm not sure what that means to you, but it's in the preamble of the constitution, so I'm going to believe we should help each other out and our government should help us out in that department.
point blank period…. my tax dollars should not go in anyway to benefitting the unfortunate 15% of americans who don't have health care, when 12 million of them are illegal immigrants, and the remaining make up the bottom 10% of the consumer market. socialized medicine is going to make the people who can afford to stimulate the economy by having their own health care, are going to suffer. we pay ems taxes on everything, that covers emergencies when the 15% of americans have an emergency and no health care. if over 3/4 of this country can have its own health care on its own, it isn't a problem. if you would like to cater to the 'less fortunate', start a charity. or we can have a check box on our w4's that says "if you would like to donate money to the government health care fund, please submit percentage of income to donate". i bet you less than 20% of american's check that box off. thats why the leftwingnuts are trying to rush this thing through congress so quickly. look at the other countries failures.
why is obama running america like a socialist enterprise instead of a government? we have more and more programs every year because people are becoming less independant and more reliant on the government for a safety net. not to mention the trillions of record spending, massive debt for our children, and him shaking hands with communist leaders. i am not convinced of the "change". can't forget the massive "stimulus" plan, that hasn't stimulated anything but more job losses than bush's last 6 months in office. turn it around obama
#1 by Justin Perry - June 12th, 2009 at 19:31
Is universal healthcare that bad of an idea? I don't understand several things about how Americans view it as a bad idea. First off… Where is the American view of we can do anything better than anyone? And another thing I was thinking about, I do understand that socialized medicine could turn out to be a bad idea, but we have successful government run programs all over the country, why does this particular one have to fail? Why should any individual trust a government run military or NASA and not trust a government run program for check-ups and operations? Why can we be so good at some things but suck at others before we even try?
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#2 by dmh724 - June 13th, 2009 at 09:20
The military and NASA are both very interesting. Both entities waste millions and millions of dollars each year. Success is not based off of money saved like a private business. Success is measured by mission accomplishment.
Socialist medicine is a proven failure in many countries. It allows the government to ration out healthcare. It leads to abuses where people are being denied treatment because of age or mental health state.
The health care industry is already controlled so much by the government and is why we have such high costs. We need an alternative to the FDA because their slow procedures keep good drugs backlogged in the system for a decade or more when people could have taken those meds and lived. Also administrative costs account for 25% of all healthcare costs.
Quote
#3 by dmh724 - June 13th, 2009 at 09:20
Allow the free markets to prevail and get government out of medicine. Costs will dramatically come down. We had affordable healthcare back in the 1960's. But then government got involved and messed it up.
The purpose of government is to protect liberties, not to get involved in psuedo healthcare. Socialized medicine is not going to give you a good plan, better treatment, or fair practices. They are going to FORCE you to buy a plan the government thinks is good. Chances are the people who are going to pick the plans for you are more educated properly either. The government is full of people who are not experts, but politicians and con artists.
Private business always does it better. They have to operate a budget, they have to succeed. If you don't run a good business, you go out of business. The animal spirits of human entrepeneurs always makes sure competition occurs and the best alternatives succeed. Its basic economics that are time tested and proven methods.
Quote
#4 by Justin Perry - June 16th, 2009 at 16:55
Well you put a lot up there so let me start at the beginning. I hear all the time that Our Military is the best in the world, is that not success? Does that not mean throwing 10 times more money at it than anyone else means it might be successful. And Socialist medicine is a proven failure by a lot of people, but there are also people who like it better, there is always two sides to that coin. There are people who go to those countries to get the free and sometimes better healthcare instead of getting robbed by their current systems. I agree that our current system doesn't work, and I believe that's why this(socialized medicine) idea is getting more and more followers. And you are right, the government has been setting prices for medicine and been in control for years, which is another reason it's gone down hill.
If we could actually get the free market to run itself that would fix so much. But do you honestly think in this day in age that the free market would remain free for long? I hate the FDA, but if we could get the bureaucracy out of it, the politicians, we might be able to do some good. Administrative costs will always account for a good percentage of any industry, especially when the malpractice and medical law suits are in the higher percentages. In our current system I have many people in my family that have been rejected of have very high costs because of prior conditions. My mother can't even get decent healthcare for the main reason she had Breast Cancer, that's just not right.
Also if you want to get technical about it, the purpose of government is to protect our liberties and more. I will take a piece from something you are very familiar with: "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
Now promote the general welfare… I will give you the definition of Welfare: 1. the good fortune, health, happiness, prosperity, etc., of a person, group, or organization; well-being: to look after a child's welfare; the physical or moral welfare of society.
As that explains to me… That's exactly what the government is supposed to do, promote my general health. Our current system doesn't do that. I can't afford healthcare personally, and I'm not some jobless scum feeding off the government, it's just not in my budget right now. And our children are not getting the care they need.
Here's the situation basically, the current system we have doesn't work! So they are trying to fix it, although I do agree with you I would personally rather go back to the older system and perhaps let the free market try. But apparently that's not in the cards right now. I don't know how we could take the government out of everything right now as the system currently is, it would probably crumble and fall. Basically what I've been seeing lately is the two sides of government, left and right, are just pointing fingers at each other saying the others idea is bad. The Democrats are saying, Look what Bush did, Look at our economy, things aren't good right now, and we can make them better. What I'm seeing from the Republicans are just tearing up every little thing the democrats are doing. Not one person is working together to make this country a better place for all of us. Most individual people can overlook these things, but for some reason in government they can't. They just want to bicker and waste tax dollars and time.
I agree that our government is too damn big, but I'm not talking about the necessary entities that we most likely need. I'm talking about all the staff aids and lobbyers, wasting money on researching shit we don't need, wasting time and money in helping out the poor who can help themselves… the list goes on and on. But does that mean our people do not deserve a better life and better healthcare. I also agree it(socialized medicine) could get way worse, it could be a horrible idea, but my mentality is, We are fucking America, why can't we do it better and help out our people more! But what do I know… at some point though you will have to agree and everyone will. Our system was designed for the government to take care of it's people. I'm not sure what that means to you, but it's in the preamble of the constitution, so I'm going to believe we should help each other out and our government should help us out in that department.
Quote
#5 by Justin Perry - June 18th, 2009 at 19:27
Hey David did you get my last rebuttal? I submitted it, but it said it was waiting for your approval… Now I'm thinking you never got it.
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#6 by nick - August 7th, 2009 at 04:15
point blank period…. my tax dollars should not go in anyway to benefitting the unfortunate 15% of americans who don't have health care, when 12 million of them are illegal immigrants, and the remaining make up the bottom 10% of the consumer market. socialized medicine is going to make the people who can afford to stimulate the economy by having their own health care, are going to suffer. we pay ems taxes on everything, that covers emergencies when the 15% of americans have an emergency and no health care. if over 3/4 of this country can have its own health care on its own, it isn't a problem. if you would like to cater to the 'less fortunate', start a charity. or we can have a check box on our w4's that says "if you would like to donate money to the government health care fund, please submit percentage of income to donate". i bet you less than 20% of american's check that box off. thats why the leftwingnuts are trying to rush this thing through congress so quickly. look at the other countries failures.
Quote
#7 by john - August 7th, 2009 at 04:15
why is obama running america like a socialist enterprise instead of a government? we have more and more programs every year because people are becoming less independant and more reliant on the government for a safety net. not to mention the trillions of record spending, massive debt for our children, and him shaking hands with communist leaders. i am not convinced of the "change". can't forget the massive "stimulus" plan, that hasn't stimulated anything but more job losses than bush's last 6 months in office. turn it around obama
Quote